Parents: Julius Schiff and Rika née Forchheimer
Spouse: Ludwig Goldner
Children: Clementine and Lothar (later Justin)
Maxstraße 4 (now 9)
December 1937 emigrated to the USA
Irma Goldner, née Schiff lived in Bad Kissingen only for a short time. She was born in Oberthulba on June 20, 1896 as the daughter of Julius Schiff and his wife Rika, née Forchheimer. The widely branched Jewish Schiff family had been living in the village for generations.
In May 1914, Irma Schiff moved to Bad Kissingen into Maxstrasse 4 and was employed as a trainee cook in Hotel Herzfeld for several months. In August that year she moved back into her home village.
In January 1925, she married the butcher, farmer and cattle dealer Ludwig Goldner who was born in Zeitlofs and moved into his home village with him. There, her daughter Clementine was born in 1928, her son Lothar in 1931.
During the Nazi era, the situation for the family became increasingly threatening. Irma's daughter Clementine remembers "that the Nazi thugs in Zeitlofs threw my grandfather Ludwig into jail on trumped up charges. He was beaten up and after his release, he was looking for any way to get his family out of Germany. When he received a letter from a distant relative in the United States offering to sponsor his family and others. We went to our relatives (in Oberthulba) and I remember my parents begging them to come with us, but they wanted to remain; they felt that if they were quiet and remained in the background, ‚this would all blow over‘. We never heard from them after we left Germany. My parents made many attempts to find them after the war and what happened to them, but could find out nothing. It was only after my parents’ deaths that we learned of their deaths at concentration camps from the records at Yad Vashem, Israel.”
Felix Schiff, who ran a manufactured goods business in Oberthulba and was chairman of the Jewish community at the beginning of the 1930s, was deported to Krasniczyn with his wife Caroline née Goldner, a sister of Ludwig, and their two children. Ludwig's older sister Elsa m. Bravmann and her husband were also deported with the same deportation train and murdered. And Ernestine Goldner - Leopold Goldner's second wife - who temporarily lived with her stepdaughter in Oberthulba, was deported and died in Theresienstadt.
Irma and her family also had a very close relationship with her: "Ernestine lived with Irma and Ludwig in Zeitlofs and often took care of Clementine, as Irma was busy caring for her son Lothar who was a young child, working on the family farm, and cooking and bringing lunch to the field workers. Ernestine sewed Clemmie’s clothes and entertained her, and Clemmie loved her dearly. She said “leaving my “Oma” behind in Germany was very painful and I missed her greatly.” (Information Carol Hoffman, Clementine’s daughter).
Irma's father Julius had died before the Nazi era in 1930, and her mother Rifka died in July 1941, the year before the deportations from Main Franconia began.
After escaping in December 1937, Irma Goldner and her family first lived in Milwaukee / Wisconsin, where Ludwig continued to work as a butcher and was known as an terrific cook. He had already worked as a cook in the German Army in WWI. Irma was a housewife, a skilled embroider, and a doting mother. She worked as a maid in Milwaukee. Both children Clementine and Lothar - who now called himself Justin - graduated from college and earned graduate degrees.
In the 1950s, Irma Goldner and her husband moved to California, where she died in Los Angeles in April 1971 at the age of 74. Her husband had already died in November 1962.
Today Irma's grandchildren and great grandchildren live in the United States. Many of them visited Zeitlofs and a few of them also went to Oberthulba, where Irma had lived with her family before 1937, and many had their German citizenship restored.
Meldeunterlagen der Stadt Bad Kissingen
Informationen Anita Wirth, Standesamt Oberthulba, 19.03.2019
Datenbank Ancestry, Familienstammbaum
Datenbank Ancestry, New York, Passagierlisten, 1820-1957
Datenbank Ancestry, Petition of naturalization
Datenbank Ancestry, Petition of naturalization Ludwig Goldner
Datenbank Ancestry, Sterbeindex Kalifornien, 1940 - 1997, Eintrag Ludwig Goldner
Datenbank Ancestry, Sterbeindex Kalifornien 1940- 1997, Eintrag Irma Goldner
Detaillierte Hinweise zum Stammbaum der Familie Goldner finden sich auf:
Datenbank Ancestry, Greenberg Family Tree und Datenbank Genicom, Irma Goldner (Schiff)
Meldeunterlagen der Gemeinde Zeitlofs, Schreiben von Frau Hundhammer, 16.09.2019
Informationen Jill Goldner, Mail 24.03.2021
Informationen Carol Hoffman, Mail 30.03.2021
© Jill Goldner and Carolin Hoffman